Fan the Flame
Ok, good stuff, we've sparked something here... See the previous post and Dizzle's blog to know what I mean. This exactly what I wanted, I want to get people talking about these matters. My last post unfortunately wasn't as clear as I would have liked, but we're on our way to where I was going.
In my original post the question "How much should we?" got asked... I firmly believe that we MUST be involved in politics and law - read Diz's post please, he is much more knowledgeable on this and can break it down better than I could. However, my questions are what type of laws and restrictions is it RIGHT for us to impose on people that don't serve God and don't want to answer to Him. The law in the old testament is good as it points people to sin - it was created for the sinner to know just that that we're sinners. Without this law people wouldn't know that we are in need of the gracious hand of God, in order to live a holy life, in addition to needing His sacrifice to gain entrance into eternal life with the Father.
My question is... If we were to illegalize (it's probably a made up word, but eh...) abortion, murder, alcohol abuse, homosexuality and all the ideals that are fought for as Christians where does it end? Are we creating a world of law or the world of grace? Where will the grace be displayed? How much of this country ACTUALLY is serving God and is ready to be subjected to these laws?
What am I saying here? I'm not saying that these laws should be given up on or abolished at all! I'm attempting to point out the response that we will receive by the opposers. Even if they are willing to comply with the laws, the standard is not something we can adhere to without the assistance of The Holy Spirit - which we even ignore, as demonstrated by Haggart.
My point is that there's a lot that needs to be taken into account. Let's be on the same page and discuss these things - we aren't glorifying to God if we're not firing together. I have talked about the liberal friends I'm in contact with to reveal their thoughts, but it led me off topic. These people don't mean harm, they're just misinformed, ignorant or confused. I don't fault them for thinking the way they do - we can't let their poking provoke us to retaliate innappropriately. We must be ready for the opposition and retaliate in a firm and loving manner for their hearts to change - which is the ultimate goal anyway.
I don't disagree with the laws that are being proposed. I think that we're playing the game on their terf and they're winning (check the polls). I don't want to be cliche and try to make it seem like I'm set and know the way to win. Like I've said, I'm trying to stir the pot and get some discussion.
posted by Professor Hawk @ 8:17 AM
5 comments
5 Comments:
I think you raised a great point man. And as a Christian its so hard to wrestle with this. To take the abortion issue for instance. If you look at the numbers, more abortions took place when it was illegal. And they were done in crude ways that caused mutilation and death of alot of women. But is the answer to legalize all abortions then? I have no idea. I think its the mindset thats gotta change, and the only way to change it is to, as Tom again said, start a sort of grassroots movement. Outlawing abortions unfortunalty will not decrease the number of abortions performed because the mindset didnt change and the mindset is its my choice i will do what i feel is right for me. And how do you argue against that? I think the most powerful thing we can do is, as is always the case, live by example. If the world sees christian women not performing aboritons under even the most crazy circumstances and good comes out of it...then maybe their mindset shifts. I guess what im trying to say is that it is much more powerful to have a woman that went through the situation and did not choose an abortion tell a woman going through it right now why she did not do it rather than having a legislated mandate telling her why she can't do it.
And all that being said i still dont know where i come out on the issue when it concerns the law. When i read the constitution i dont see it protecting abortion; the right of privacy isnt even in the constitution! Read it!! But does that mean we should outlaw them? I dont know!
Interesting to note; the Supreme Court is reviewing the issue as we speak. Aight, i hope that made sense, im off to class.
Diz
I have to agree with Roman on this matter. Because even when we look back into the old testament we can see time and time again how the Isrealites disobeyed God and the laws that He had given them to adhere too. Whether people know the Lord or not, they still know the difference between right and wrong. Whether abortion is legal or not, people have enough sense to know, or maybe they dont, that killing an innocent child whether they consider it alive or not, is bad.
OR to relate it to the bible, the Isrealites worshipping false Gods and idols, when they had prophets like Elijah, Elisha, Moses, etc. showing them the incredible and reigning power of their God.
I mean can we as Christians really impose "laws" onto people? In ways, yes, but in alot of other ways no. That is again why the Lord has made us His disciples, to go out and proclaim His word and faith, by our actions.
As Scott said, we cannot do these things unless we are firing together, which lead me to look at Hebrews 10: 23-25, which says, "Let us hold fast to the confession of our hope wihtout wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider ONE another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching."
The way I see it, we could legalize or illegalize any law we want, our world is still going to be messed up in their ways of thinking because we are sinful, wrong human beings, without the Holy Spirit and Christ leading us in such manners. What more is there to do than to ACT the way Christ has called us in order to start making those differences? and are we doing enough in our walks within ourselves and with our fellow Christians to encourage and make others stop and really think about what they are doing?? JB
oh, beans with it all!!
OOh! Now we are getting to the meat of the matter. I think the reason this is such an important issue, is because there are alot of christian organizations trying to do just what we are talking about, push our laws through the judicial system. And I have always thought that there must be something better for Christians to do with our collective resources than push our laws on people who don't care about God.
Does it matter if a Gay couple is 'married' or not, if they beleive God approves of their sexuality? I think we are missing the point, if we just change the law, and think we have done our duty. In deed, we must get to the heart of these matters.
As JB said, we must ACT like christians, and show the world there is hope, and truth in Christ. But also, I think I have a heart for debate, and discussion, and I think if it were possible to have discussions about touchy issues like these without desolving to a shouting match, if it were possible for people to see Christians as people who have strong convictions, but stronger LOVE for them, perhaps we would see some change.
What do you think?
I came across an interesting passage this weekend and think that it fits quite well with what Tom just replied too. I would urge you all to read 1 Timothy 1:3-8. In short it talks about focusing on the doctrine, not endless geneologies that lead to idle talk. Here is the best part, verse 5, "Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith."
What am I trying to say? If we are going to show the people of the world the love of Christ, we must obtain these things. If we dont, we may end up falling into idle speech and lose the focus from which we are called.
The world needs to see the light that burns from our hearts, from the love God has given us through the Holy Spirit b/c the Lord has enabled us and counted us faithful by putting us into ministry for HIM.
As you go on to read in 1st Timothy, we can see that the word says that the law is not for the righteous, but unrighteous. As Tom said, we cant, as americans and christians think that we have done our duty by simply instilling a law among the unrigteous and think that it is going to change everything or make them abide by the law.
The question is how do we go past the law and try to understand that it is not the law that is most likely causing people to sin, but the pure lie that they think the sin, love, lust, greed, etc is something that will bring them happiness, b/c all else in their lives has failed...and the greatest thing that is for sure lacking, is love.
How do you show the love of Christ through pure actions, when "worldly" love or the only love that they have known has failed them time and time again?
I believe that is where much prayer and faith in the Lord comes in, for only He can really break that bondage and open the eyes of the lost to see Him.
This is turning into babbling, so i rest my case.
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